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Okinawa1985
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Posted On: 2018-04-21 15:19:47
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Did GOD Have a Beginning?

To the question โ€œDid GOD have a beginning?โ€ the scientist, if so incline, will more than likely say yes, absolutely, because all things present has a start from some place in time. But the more spiritual, Bible driven, will quote scriptures that point to Him having no beginning, thus causing many whose worship is in science to consider we who believe in GOD and scriptures, are among the more ignorant. Even knowing there are multiple scriptures to indicate GOD has no beginning we can definitively point to, I believe GOD did have a beginning, and it's the Bible that proves it. You see, it is my belief that all scriptures that points to GOD not having a beginning, are scripture that serve one primary purpose โ€“ to make us aware that there is no reason for us to concern ourselves for there is no definitive answer to be found. It's just not important for us to know! So many scriptures. Form Genesis to Exodus, Psalms to Proverbs, 1 Timothy backwards to Deuteronomy - so many scriptures to consider, yet, all indicating to me one primary thing, it's not important for me to know!

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1 month 3 weeks ago

And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. Which is in revelation 21:6
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1 month 4 weeks ago

Difficul one. Let me just said this:

God is the endless, timeless space before the Creation of the Universe, and its the endless, timeless space after that.

Blessings to all
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2 months 1 week ago

No because he is the creator and he was in the beginning of the world.
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2 months 3 weeks ago

yes god had a plan for everybody who were willing to be in the plan if not so be
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2 months 3 weeks ago

Hi @Okinawa1985, Hope all is well at your end. Although your question is very brilliant, well intentioned, intelligent, thought provoking and one of the best questions posted in recent times, I think the context of the question "Did" GOD Have a Beginning? makes it seem as if you are trying to assign God to a particular time zone. God cannot be assigned to any time zone because He is uncreated eternal and unchanging. He is the unchanging constant of the universe. If God has a beginning, then it means that He was created and if God was created, then it means that He is a creature and not the creator. God is now. God is not a did. (so to speak) God is a forever doing

God is the ever present God, the I am that I am (not the I was that I was). God is the primary ground, the irreducible element, the originator with no origin. God is NOT A then ,a did, or a going to become. God is ever present, and unchanging now and forever more.
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2 months 3 weeks ago
The Bible tells us in the book of Gen 1:1 "In the beginning", God created the heavens. If God was "in the beginning", how can God have a beginning?
Time is finite. God is infinite. Everybody in this world has a beginning and an end (which is why God tells us that God "created" in the beginning) but God has no beginning or end because He is uncreated and eternal.
BERRINTON
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2 months 3 weeks ago
My next claims might sound like scenes from a science fiction movie but upon careful reflection, you will realize that Time is simply perception. Time is how your mind quantifies the flow of consciousness. Yesterday was once solid reality but now it is in the content of your mind as a memory i.e a thought and is only retrievable by your memory Matter is continuous, not solid. What you call matter is simply a thought that has been slowed down...
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2 months 3 weeks ago
...to be perceivable to your senses for a moment and the next moment, it becomes an abstract thought in your mind. What you ate as solid food last year only exists as a memory (thought) in your mind. Obama was once president of the US in solid reality but right now, he only exists in that form in your thought field (memory) From a time perspective, the past is the only constant in the universe meaning the past is the only phase that will forever remain past. The present will eventually
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2 months 3 weeks ago
...become the past and The future will eventually become the present and then the past. Yesterday (which was once today) is gone, if God keeps us, today will eventually become yesterday (the past) and tomorrow will eventually become the past. Since the past is the only constant in the universe, then it means that the contents of the past are the only "constant reality" and when we examine the contents of the past, we will realize that the past only contains thoughts. i.e our pasts are ..
BERRINTON
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2 months 3 weeks ago
..simply memories encoded in our minds. So from a time perspective, the past is thought, the present is thought projected as matter (form) for a moment and until it happens, (i.e until it becomes a solidified present) the future is possibility i.e thoughts that have not yet been solidified into form. What we call time is the continuous projection (flow) of thoughts (consciousness) in an eternal now. The thoughts are now but our perception of them is what we call time.
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2 months 3 weeks ago
But God is eternal. God is "not" perception. God is reality as it is. God cannot be subject to the laws of birth, aging and decay. God cannot be subject to the changing phases of the world. God is the standard, the substance, not the shadow. The way things are and will always be.
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2 months 3 weeks ago
Thoughts like water exist in 3 states, the past, the present and the future and like water they are forever flowing and unstable i.e they keep changing states. The past (abstract memories) The present (thoughts solidified into form) and the future (possibilities, thoughts that we havent yet experienced as form i.e the thoughts that our minds haven't yet experienced as solid & abstract) But God unlike water is unchanging. He is uncreated. He is not a fleeting perception or sensation. He is.
Okinawa1985
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2 months 3 weeks ago
BERRINTON, thank you, and everything is good at my end. Actually, my friend, I'm trying to keep GOD in the โ€œtime zoneโ€ Moses did. As you already know, scientifically speaking, all things have a Beginning! With GOD, however, the Beginning is absolutely inexplicable, because of HIS unmatchable uniqueness. And in addition to HIS unmatchable uniqueness, I suggest that GOD'S Beginning can only be qualified in one way, and it remains spiritual nevertheless, which is to say
Okinawa1985
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2 months 3 weeks ago
Cont'd>> that GOD'S Beginning is there at the Beginning which Genesis 1-1 points to. And I believe it is to that Beginning Moses spoke of, that remains the most inexplicable and most unidentifiable of all beginnings. The way I see it BERRINTON, where GOD is concern, HE doesn't have to be a creation to have a Beginning. One thing we can agree on, one which appears to be so, is that Moses believed GOD had a beginning, which I believe was there at the Beginning he, Moses, spoke
Okinawa1985
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2 months 3 weeks ago
Cont'd>> of there at Genesis 1-1. In fact, upon allowing myself to STOP and truly rethink my belief in the GODHEAD, it was this (Genesis 1-1) along with John 1:1-3 that helped to change change my belief regarding the relationship between Almighty GOD and Jesus Christ. As I came to understand Moses' acknowledgment, GOD'S Beginning was there at the beginning which Moses declared. I believe that through such a Beginning, GOD remains eternal. As the Alpha and the Omega,
Okinawa1985
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Cont'd>> HE continues on through time indefinite, and it is because of HIS inexplicable and most unidentifiable Beginning, that expands HIS uniqueness, and the disbelief many hold in HIS true existence. That being said, I must ask the question, โ€œDoes it really matter?โ€ If GOD felt it important enough for us to know, wouldn't HE have made it well known to us? With that I say, and believe, GOD did have a Beginning. Even though the Bible explains HIM not to have a
Okinawa1985
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2 months 3 weeks ago
Cont'd>> โ€œbeginning or ending,โ€ I believe GOD'S Beginning was just as Moses stated, โ€œIn the beginningโ€ whenever and wherever it was!
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2 months 3 weeks ago
@Okinawa1985. Nice to know that everything is good at your end. As usual, I enjoyed reading your reply but I think we are gonna disagree on some points. You cant keep God in the time zone because time is a created word. When we speak of time we speak of something that has an origin , of something that proceeds from something else. Everything that has a beginning You, me and every other person in the world came from an original source. But the word beginning cannot be associated with..
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2 months 3 weeks ago
..God because He is eternal. Attaching a time zone to an eternal God is equivalent to attempting to recreate God in our own image and likeness. Jesus told the Jews before Abraham was I am. If he were subject to time like you and me, he would have claimed before Abraham was I was. You claim Moses kept God in the time zone but when revealing Himself to Moses, God told Moses that He was the I am that I am (meaning I am self existent). God's nature could be described as a self existent selfhood..
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2 months 3 weeks ago
..a selfhood that is not derived or dependent on another self but we are derived and created selves. We all come from another, from parents. If you beat time , space and all created phenomena back to day one you will be left with God and "nothing" else which is why God calls Himself the beginning and the end meaning before everything began and after everything ends there will still be the same God unchanged and eternal.
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2 months 3 weeks ago
If you read Gen 1:5 You will notice that the Bible tells us that after God created the day and night the evening and the morning were the "first" day. But the Bible makes us understand that prior to the 1st day (day denotes time), God already existed. So even before there was a day, a night a sun, a moon (which we use to identify days and night) light, darkness people, etc. there was God.
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2 months 3 weeks ago
And He was there in the beginning (John 1:1, Gen 1:1) If God was in the beginning, how can he be said to have a beginning? Time like i wrote previously is perception. It is not a static or solid quality . In time things have a beginning and end. In time things change and cease. But in eternity the sphere of God, things have no beginning and end and things do not change. They forever remain the same.
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2 months 3 weeks ago
Time is how you quantify your experiences. The difference between this moment and the next is something in your mind (which you previously experienced as solid) and something you experience as solid right now So time is a mind thing. the seemingly unending and continual flow of consciousness that is happening in an eternal and unchanging now. You might wonder how a world and a universe that seems so static and stable could be said to described being in a state of flux i.e flow
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2 months 3 weeks ago
But consider the earth. Science tells us that it rotates around its own axis and revolves around the sun annually but in "our" own experience, it is static and stable. Consider your body, science tells us that every 5-7 years with the exception of your brain cells all your cells die and are replaced by new ones. In fact science tells us that we lose 2 million red blood cells daily but despite the constant changes to your body, your our iness your okinawaness so to speak remains the same.
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2 months 3 weeks ago
Also your body and every material on earth is made up of atoms, these atoms are made up of electrons and these according to science, these electrons are in a constant state of motion and their location and momentum cannot be exactly predicted. So how can a body that looks so exact consist of subatomic particles that are in a constant state of motion? despite appearances to the contrary, the material world is in a continuous but "persistent" state of motion and this motion reflects the motions
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2 months 3 weeks ago
of our minds or our consciousness but unlike time which flows i.e moves, eternity is still and unchanging. We are experiencers of time i.e motion of changing thoughts and these thoughts are really occurring in timelessness. (i.e the sphere of God) which is why the Bible tells us in Acts 17:28 :"..in Him" we live move and have our being. Despite the fact that we appear to be in a time world separated from God, we are really in the eternal state where God is all that is.
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2 months 3 weeks ago
And therefore, we cant run or hide from Him (Rev20:11) because He is all that really is.
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2 months 3 weeks ago
I am the 1st and the last (Rev 1:11) meaning before there was existence (before I created anything) and after the existence of my creation, I still am and will forever be or in other words, I am the unchanging constant in the universe.
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2 months 3 weeks ago
Great, BERRINTON, excellent, and I agree! Again, I guess I wasn't clear in my thoughts. It was to the beginning mentioned at Genesis 1:1 and John 1:1-3 to which I believe GOD belongs, and which provides the most important. I understand what you are saying. You and Mark (MJ) taught me that some time ago.
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2 months 3 weeks ago
@Okinawa1985 Nice to know that we are agreed although I do not expect you to take everything that I wrote hook, line and sinker without careful reflection. Whenever we want to understand God and His nature, We must "always" ensure that we do not ascribe the same attributes that we ascribe to ourselves to Him because God is the Creator and we are His creature. I know my theory that time isnt real might seem hard to understand and digest but look at it this way. 1st of all, what is time.
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2 months 3 weeks ago
and why do we have time? Time is the measurement of experience and we have time on earth because according to science the "earth" rotates on its own axis (24 hours) and around the sun (365 1/4) days. Now if God created the earth and the sun, then it means that He pre-existed both of them and if God preexisted the earth,the sun, the moon and the stars, then how could time exist before God?
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Another thing you must understand is that time is not an absolute quality. It is relative upon the speed of the observer (einstein ) and where (i.e the location) it is observed. For example, a year in venus (224.65 earth days) is longer than a day in venus ( 243 Earth days) so a day in venus is nearly 20 Earth days longer than its year. So assuming God began to exist from a time perspective, what time zone was the beginning of His existence based upon? Was it based on the time zone ..
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2 months 3 weeks ago
on Venus, the Earth , Jupiter (where a year is about 12 earth years long)? Even on earth, time is relative. The time in Hawaii in the US is almost 24 hrs behind the time in Apia, Samoa so when it is today in Hawaii it is yesterday in Apia. So time is not absolute and everything in time always has a beginning and whatever has a beginning must have an end. But God is the infinite with no boundaries (i.e no beginning or end) that created the finite, we who have a beginning and an end.
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2 months 3 weeks ago
correction: I meant to write a year in venus is shorter than a day in venus.
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2 months 3 weeks ago
So whenever you wanna think of God, think of Him as the only I am that I am. The original. We are not what we are. We are derived. You are the genes of your parents and we are all the inherited characteristics of our original parents Adam and Eve which is why we all sin like they did. But God is the original un-derived and self existent self. He is who he is because He is authentic, unique and un-derived. The original with no origin.
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2 months 3 weeks ago
https://www.wired.com/2016/09/arrow-of-time/
Okinawa1985
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2 months 3 weeks ago
Obviously, BERRINTON, can't disagree with any of it!
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2 months 1 week ago
BERRINGTON, if such is all true, may I suggest then that "Before the beginning, GOD was.. and the beginning was forged by means of HIM?" Therefore, before GOD, there was nothing except for GOD!"
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2 months 1 week ago
Excellent @Okinawa1985. You nailed it. The beginning was forged by God because before the beginning, there was nothing but God and the beginning was called the beginning because it was the start" of something other than God. i.e the creation. The universe, motion, energy, space, matter, the galaxies solar systems are all created concepts so also is time because (according to science) time (on earth) exists because of the motion of created objects i.e the earth around the sun and since God
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..created and pre-exists the earth which produces the motion which apparently creates time on earth and since He also created and pre-existed the minds which perceive time as reality (i.e you and me) then it means that God is timeless, boundless i.e cannot be confined in space (which is also a created concept). Explaining God in human words is often cumbersome because He always transcends everything we can think or say of Him so I m not gonna fault you for falling a bit short in your...
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2 months 1 week ago
closing statement "Therefore, before GOD, there was nothing except for GOD!" The word "before" denotes time and cannot be applied to God. God is boundless i.e without before and after. God is. So because of that I would rephrase your closing statement as "before "creation," i.e the beginning there was nothing except for God." Blessings to you and yours.
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2 months 1 week ago
Understood, BERRINTON! This is where my confusion was, but no longer exists. The atheist and/or pure scientist cannot comprehend due to their need to have power over their own logic. Yesterday, I was as the atheist and/or pure scientist. In the realm of our existence all things must have a beginning. Therefore, dealing with our finite logic, we feel we must attach a beginning even to GOD, because of how illogical it seems not to. Thank you, and Peace to you and yours!
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