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Question - Topics: Software Development, Web site hosting
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Be2net
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Posted On: 2017-07-10 00:48:10
Viewed: 2889
What do you think of Agile/Scrum software development?

Now a days many companies are touting that they are developing their software based on Agile methods, Scrum, Kanban. etc.
What do you think of Agile? Is it a panacea for all software development or just lots of marketing buzz? I mean one can become a Professional Scrum Product Owner after taking a 2 Days class that costs about $1200. How can then this be a really valuable skill if it takes 2 Days and $1200 to learn it! Sound more like a new age cult to me. What do you think?

Answers & Comments: 30
Fardoush
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5 months 4 weeks ago

It is mainly a BUZZ Word. It has some merits, such as meeting frequently to report on what was done and what is to be done next, but once a day is too much waste of time and complex software development cannot be broken down to such simple parts. Still if you dont know how to organize a complex software dev because you are a marketing type put in charge of a software project, then use it. However, real software developer Gods, those who have created complex projects for many years, will find it childish.
berlin909x
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1 year 1 week ago

Agile Scrum is generally a big waste of time. And I am being kind. To be exact: We all agree that any software process should make us produce the right quality software and be able to release it often and in time. Thatโ€™s it, people! The fact is that there is no silver bullet. But Scrum simply puts too much overhead on all teams.
4 More check out: http://thomasardal.com/scrum-kanban-agile-who-the-f-cares/
Mansour4
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1 year 1 week ago

I have worked in AGILE and SCRUM as a software developer and found it really stifling and fun robbing.
It REALLY sucks working in AGILE, even when done by Americans who invented the damn term and process!
Fardoush
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5 months 4 weeks ago
Ha ha, this is the best (funniest) real World answer to this question.
Bang on Man :)
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Faxonly
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1 year 2 months ago

Well given the fact that you can become Agile Certified in 2 days, by paying $1500 and taking a 2 days class, there is really not much to Agile/Scrum software development. So which do you think can bring a software project to successful result? Someone with 10 years, even better 20 years, of software development expertise or someone with days of Agile scrum?
vince_fx
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1 year 4 months ago

Agile/Scrum is something that is created by MBA types. And not People who are really expert and experienced in creating cutting edge software, specially massive internet services. So as long as you have the Money to waste, that is greatly slow down the pace of development to make the MBA types Happy, it is fine. OTOH, if you want fast and complex software development, just have good project managers and product managers and a Head of engineering to get the Job done fast and accurate.
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1 year 5 months ago

The firm I work for is practicing agile development and it works for us.

Pros:
- It allows fast delivery of working software with core features which is good for clients who are in a hurry to enter the market with an early version of their app.
- New features are added continuously, with incorporating the client's feedback and so the app evolves in line with the client's needs.
- No need to plan every detail at the beginning. Instead clients can define short-term goals, check results and then plan for the next stage. It gives flexibility to change functionality and scope of the project at any stage and ensures delivery of the right product.

Cons:
- Most work is done on-the-run without careful long-term planning. If the software engineers are not experienced in agile this can create difficulties, especially with large software systems.
- Agile requires a lot of commitment from the client. If the client is not getting involved, this eliminates all the pros.
quicksilver
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1 year 5 months ago
I think you make some very good Points. Specially the fact that if the Software being developed is simple with few layers of complexity, then Agile which gives MBA types something to do, is useful. And specially as you noted if the client is fully engaged. But if the software system is complex with multi layers of complexity, MBA Agile will produce bloated crap. OTOH, key parts of so called Agile are good software development practices which have been used by good software managers for ever,
quicksilver
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1 year 5 months ago
such as:
People over Process
Software over big documentation
etc.

But Doh! These are common sense good software development!
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webmonitor
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1 year 7 months ago

it is up to your choice
Be2net
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1 year 7 months ago
Doh! Of course it is up to "our choice"! Thanks for stating the obvious :(
avast_adi
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1 year 7 months ago
Be2net, Some People just dont have a Clue and just like to blab away.
That was the case with this webmonitor.
As far as your question goes, when it comes to simple Software development taks that are heavily influenced by non-Techi People, such as by People with MBA and other so called management roles, then Agile/Scrum is good to use. But when it comes to complex Sites & Services that need to be out of the door and bug free, then it is a hindrance rather than a help.
Lux_Report
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1 year 7 months ago
avast_adi, could not agree more. Nothing worse than members such as this webmonitor who have nothing to add to a discussion, and just through a rant so that maybe someone will visit their Profile so they can get free traffic to their Site. Pathetic :(
quicksilver
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1 year 5 months ago
avast_adi, I totally agree with you too that:
"when it comes to complex Sites & Services that need to be out of the door and bug free, then it is a hindrance rather than a help. "
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legare
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1 year 7 months ago

From my years of real software development, I am not a big fan of Agile/scrum, though it does work for some people. I think most organizations give lip service to adopting it and then you wind up with some sort of mish-mash of Agile and Waterfall that is truly a disaster. So overall just a Big waste of time :(
Much better is to let People who have years of REAL software development to select an agile team, and get the Job done fast and good free of Agile/Scrum Bull Shit.
Lux_Report
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1 year 7 months ago
Agree: Management consultants have a whole new system of bullshit now, called Agile/Scrum.
zogby
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1 year 7 months ago
Scrum/Agile does work for us. Well for sure compared to the nightmare & disaster that was waterfall before it. I honestly was very skeptical before the switch, but I have come around.
Be2net
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1 year 7 months ago
Legare & LR, I think you guys make great points. So yes, from what I see, if you want slow and stupid development, then you go Agile/scrum. But if you really want real Agile development, then you surround yourself by people who have done lots of eCommerce development and get it done really fast and safe.
Be2net
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1 year 7 months ago
Zog, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
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dave_silva
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1 year 7 months ago

Well according to agilealliance.org, Agile development method is based on these 12 Principles:
https://www.agilealliance.org/agile101/12-principles-behind-the-agile-manifesto/

Such as:

1- Our highest priority is to satisfy the customer through early and continuous delivery of valuable software.
2- Welcome changing requirements, even late in development.
3- Deliver working software frequently, from a couple of weeks to a couple of months, with a preference to the shorter timescale.
etc.

1st, which Software developer in their right mind would be not for these Principles to start with!!!!!
2nd, some times "early and continuous delivery of valuable software" is not a good idea at all and can even lead to disasters. Imagine if a Site was launched "early", such as a Bank Site, without multi layers of Security in place, which multi layers of Security "customer" would not even know about unless they were Linux/Php experts.
Be2net
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1 year 7 months ago
Great analytical answer. Thanks you.
kokopuff
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1 year 7 months ago
Well said. Agile and Scrum etc. are bunch of fancy buzz words to give People in HR or Marketing who do not know much about high level Advanced coding to feel like they have a real say in the game. I select to be Agile++ on my own :)
legare
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1 year 7 months ago
Really such a Bull Shit. I mean who would be against any of those so called Agile 12 Principles. It is called good common sense software development. You just need to have a software development manager who has managed many real world software development projects, which means they were actually deployed publicly and many People use it, and then let this manager assemble a crack team of developers to get the Job done 10 times faster than the Management consultants Bull Shit of Agile/Scrum.
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Jessica_papa
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1 year 7 months ago

It is really a buzz word. Since any good Software development team has already been following the common sense principles in so called Agile development which are:

Individuals and Interactions over processes and tools.
Working software over comprehensive documentation.
Customer Collaboration over contract negotiation.
Responding to change over following a plan.

I mean Doh! Which good software development team was not already doing this!
For more on what I mean check out:
10 Key Principles of Agile Software Development
http://www.360logica.com/blog/10-key-principles-of-agile-software-development/
dave_silva
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1 year 7 months ago
Yes, I agree.
After all who but a TOTAL Moron or even a Psycho would be for:
processes and tools over Individuals and Interactions

Be2net
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1 year 7 months ago
Hardy Har Har. That is really funny and true Dave.
So I am glad that it was not just me who fund these Agile development manifestos to be more a buzz word rather than real actionable skills or knowledge.
Still I do not think that Agile development groups mean any harm.
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mmerlinn
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1 year 7 months ago

All that has happened is someone has added a name (Agile) to what professional programmers have been doing for decades, delivering a WORKING program tailored to the CUSTOMER'S needs in a timely manner, then using customer feedback to incrementally update the same program without all of the bullshit that the customer does not need or want.

That is a far cry from what so-called 'web designers' do as evidenced by the massive numbers of bloated half-assed working websites on the internet. There is no reason to constantly re-invent the wheel like is constantly happening on the web.

$1200 to waste 2 days in class is ridiculous. One can spend half that much time at no cost by using Google and have a better handle on what is learned. Of course, doing that will not get a piece of paper showing that you spent time in a class. If a programmer is so bad that he needs that paper, he should take up some other skill that he is capable of doing, like maybe knitting.
Jessica_papa
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1 year 7 months ago
Yes, really the best proof that this Agile/Srcum/Kanba is just bunch of Buzz Words is to look at the fact that you can become a Professional Scrum Product Owner by taking a 2 Days class that costs about $1200, when it takes at least 10 Years of software development to become really Professional in software development, specially the Web development which has many many layers of technologies, aka the Stack.
dave_silva
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1 year 7 months ago
AH I like the bit:
"If a programmer is so bad that he needs that paper, he should take up some other skill that he is capable of doing, like maybe knitting"
Problem is that lots of VC Wall Street funded companies are asking the developers they are going to hire to have this piece of paper as if a 2 Day course really has any value.
Be2net
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1 year 7 months ago
dave_silva, that is very True. That is from all I See too, this Agile this and Agile that, is more driven by people who really do not have advance software development skills. More by People in the C-Suite rather than people who actually develop software FAST.
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