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Question - Topics: Software Development, Web site hosting
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Be2net
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Posted On: 2017-07-10 00:48:10
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What do you think of Agile/Scrum software development?

Now a days many companies are touting that they are developing their software based on Agile methods, Scrum, Kanban. etc.
What do you think of Agile? Is it a panacea for all software development or just lots of marketing buzz? I mean one can become a Professional Scrum Product Owner after taking a 2 Days class that costs about $1200. How can then this be a really valuable skill if it takes 2 Days and $1200 to learn it! Sound more like a new age cult to me. What do you think?

Answers & Comments: 26
Faxonly
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6 hours 56 minutes ago

Well given the fact that you can become Agile Certified in 2 days, by paying $1500 and taking a 2 days class, there is really not much to Agile/Scrum software development. So which do you think can bring a software project to successful result? Someone with 10 years, even better 20 years, of software development expertise or someone with days of Agile scrum?
vince_fx
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1 month 2 weeks ago

Agile/Scrum is something that is created by MBA types. And not People who are really expert and experienced in creating cutting edge software, specially massive internet services. So as long as you have the Money to waste, that is greatly slow down the pace of development to make the MBA types Happy, it is fine. OTOH, if you want fast and complex software development, just have good project managers and product managers and a Head of engineering to get the Job done fast and accurate.
Dasha
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2 months 4 weeks ago

The firm I work for is practicing agile development and it works for us.

Pros:
- It allows fast delivery of working software with core features which is good for clients who are in a hurry to enter the market with an early version of their app.
- New features are added continuously, with incorporating the client's feedback and so the app evolves in line with the client's needs.
- No need to plan every detail at the beginning. Instead clients can define short-term goals, check results and then plan for the next stage. It gives flexibility to change functionality and scope of the project at any stage and ensures delivery of the right product.

Cons:
- Most work is done on-the-run without careful long-term planning. If the software engineers are not experienced in agile this can create difficulties, especially with large software systems.
- Agile requires a lot of commitment from the client. If the client is not getting involved, this eliminates all the pros.
quicksilver
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2 months 4 weeks ago
I think you make some very good Points. Specially the fact that if the Software being developed is simple with few layers of complexity, then Agile which gives MBA types something to do, is useful. And specially as you noted if the client is fully engaged. But if the software system is complex with multi layers of complexity, MBA Agile will produce bloated crap. OTOH, key parts of so called Agile are good software development practices which have been used by good software managers for ever,
quicksilver
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2 months 4 weeks ago
such as:
People over Process
Software over big documentation
etc.

But Doh! These are common sense good software development!

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webmonitor
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4 months 6 days ago

it is up to your choice
Be2net
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4 months 5 days ago
Doh! Of course it is up to "our choice"! Thanks for stating the obvious :(
avast_adi
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4 months 5 days ago
Be2net, Some People just dont have a Clue and just like to blab away.
That was the case with this webmonitor.
As far as your question goes, when it comes to simple Software development taks that are heavily influenced by non-Techi People, such as by People with MBA and other so called management roles, then Agile/Scrum is good to use. But when it comes to complex Sites & Services that need to be out of the door and bug free, then it is a hindrance rather than a help.
Lux_Report
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4 months 5 days ago
avast_adi, could not agree more. Nothing worse than members such as this webmonitor who have nothing to add to a discussion, and just through a rant so that maybe someone will visit their Profile so they can get free traffic to their Site. Pathetic :(
quicksilver
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2 months 4 weeks ago
avast_adi, I totally agree with you too that:
"when it comes to complex Sites & Services that need to be out of the door and bug free, then it is a hindrance rather than a help. "

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legare
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4 months 6 days ago

From my years of real software development, I am not a big fan of Agile/scrum, though it does work for some people. I think most organizations give lip service to adopting it and then you wind up with some sort of mish-mash of Agile and Waterfall that is truly a disaster. So overall just a Big waste of time :(
Much better is to let People who have years of REAL software development to select an agile team, and get the Job done fast and good free of Agile/Scrum Bull Shit.
Lux_Report
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4 months 6 days ago
Agree: Management consultants have a whole new system of bullshit now, called Agile/Scrum.
zogby
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4 months 6 days ago
Scrum/Agile does work for us. Well for sure compared to the nightmare & disaster that was waterfall before it. I honestly was very skeptical before the switch, but I have come around.
Be2net
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4 months 5 days ago
Legare & LR, I think you guys make great points. So yes, from what I see, if you want slow and stupid development, then you go Agile/scrum. But if you really want real Agile development, then you surround yourself by people who have done lots of eCommerce development and get it done really fast and safe.
Be2net
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4 months 5 days ago
Zog, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

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dave_silva
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4 months 1 week ago

Well according to agilealliance.org, Agile development method is based on these 12 Principles:
https://www.agilealliance.org/agile101/12-principles-behind-the-agile-manifesto/

Such as:

1- Our highest priority is to satisfy the customer through early and continuous delivery of valuable software.
2- Welcome changing requirements, even late in development.
3- Deliver working software frequently, from a couple of weeks to a couple of months, with a preference to the shorter timescale.
etc.

1st, which Software developer in their right mind would be not for these Principles to start with!!!!!
2nd, some times "early and continuous delivery of valuable software" is not a good idea at all and can even lead to disasters. Imagine if a Site was launched "early", such as a Bank Site, without multi layers of Security in place, which multi layers of Security "customer" would not even know about unless they were Linux/Php experts.
Be2net
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4 months 1 week ago
Great analytical answer. Thanks you.
kokopuff
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4 months 1 week ago
Well said. Agile and Scrum etc. are bunch of fancy buzz words to give People in HR or Marketing who do not know much about high level Advanced coding to feel like they have a real say in the game. I select to be Agile++ on my own :)
legare
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4 months 6 days ago
Really such a Bull Shit. I mean who would be against any of those so called Agile 12 Principles. It is called good common sense software development. You just need to have a software development manager who has managed many real world software development projects, which means they were actually deployed publicly and many People use it, and then let this manager assemble a crack team of developers to get the Job done 10 times faster than the Management consultants Bull Shit of Agile/Scrum.

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Jessica_papa
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4 months 1 week ago

It is really a buzz word. Since any good Software development team has already been following the common sense principles in so called Agile development which are:

Individuals and Interactions over processes and tools.
Working software over comprehensive documentation.
Customer Collaboration over contract negotiation.
Responding to change over following a plan.

I mean Doh! Which good software development team was not already doing this!
For more on what I mean check out:
10 Key Principles of Agile Software Development
http://www.360logica.com/blog/10-key-principles-of-agile-software-development/
dave_silva
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4 months 1 week ago
Yes, I agree.
After all who but a TOTAL Moron or even a Psycho would be for:
processes and tools over Individuals and Interactions

Be2net
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4 months 1 week ago
Hardy Har Har. That is really funny and true Dave.
So I am glad that it was not just me who fund these Agile development manifestos to be more a buzz word rather than real actionable skills or knowledge.
Still I do not think that Agile development groups mean any harm.

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