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Question - Topic: Religion Christian
GEO: World Wide
BroRando

Joined: 2016-05-20
Location: United States
Points: 69 | Coach

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Posted On: 2016-10-09 09:49:26
Viewed: 812
Is Christ the Angel of God's Presence?

How would you explain this verse? "In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bore them, and carried them all the days of old." (Isaiah 63:9 KJV)

Answers & Comments: 37

YosefMarques


Points: 22 | Trainer

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4 months 3 weeks ago

I completly believe that Yeshua, the Messiah of Israel, is the Angel of YHWH. See these verses and decide for yourself:
Shemot (Exo) 23:20-23 ” Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him. But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.”.

Paul said: Paul says in Acts 27:23 “For there stood by me this night the angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve”

If you want to read more about it go to : https://answersintorah.wordpress.com/2016/10/28/yeshua-the-angel-of-elohim-the-messiah-of-israel/
Blessings to all.
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BroRando


Points: 69 | Coach

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5 months 1 week ago

Trinitarians reject that the Angel of God's Presence is Jesus Christ. Therefore, their dogma rejects that Jesus Christ was afflicted. They reject salvation being granted by Jesus Christ. They also reject that Jesus Christ redeems believers. So, if Jesus Christ didn't bear our sins and carry them all the days of old, then who died for our sins if not Jesus Christ?
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BroRando 5 months 1 week ago

The scriptures plainly tell us that "Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God."(1
Corinthians 1:24 KJV) "And the Angel of Jehovah said to him, How is it that thou askest
after my name, seeing it is wonderful?" (Judges 13:14 Darby) Doesn't
(Isaiah 9:6) speak about "a child" or "a son" that would be born to us and one of his
names is >i>Wonderful? "Jehovah possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his
works of old." (Proverbs 8:22 Darby)


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BERRINTON


Points: 110 | Mentor

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5 months 2 weeks ago

Jesus is the only begotten son of God (John 3:16) .It is an indisputable fact that like "always" begets like and it is also obvious that God is not an angel so how can Jesus be an angel? How can a divine God give birth to something that is not God? Besides, the intent of the verse is glaring to all those who have eyes to see.
In all their affliction he was afflicted, = referring to God
the angel of his presence saved them= referring to the angel that God sent
in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bore them, and carried them all the days of old= Referring to God
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BroRando 5 months 2 weeks ago

How is it that God is an angel but not Jesus? All the days of old refers to "Christ also
has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being
put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:" (1 Peter 3:18 KJV) Christ is the
Angel of God's presence and is the One who became better of the angle because he inherited
a name more excellent then theirs.

BERRINTON 5 months 2 weeks ago

Christ is the Angel of God's presence in your illusory world where you were begotten from
a turtle but in the real world, Christ is God manifest in the flesh.

BroRando 5 months 2 weeks ago

Well, is God begotten? If God is eternal, then who was that who was begotten? Jesus
Christ call his Father , the only true God in (John 17:3) Your claim that the angel is
God himself is contradictory to Jesus never being an angel then isn't it?

BroRando 5 months 2 weeks ago

Did God appear to Moses or an angel? "After forty years had passed, an angel appeared
to Moses
in the flames of a burning bush in the desert near Mount Sinai." (Acts 7:30)

BERRINTON 5 months 2 weeks ago

Your thought "begets" your actions. All the actions carried out by your body are primarily
thoughts before they become actions. You are the one doing the thinking and you are also
the one doing the acting and all your manifest actions are the "exact" reflections of your
thoughts.
Your thought: Invisible you
Your action: Manifest you
In the same way, the invisible Father begets the manifest son and the son that is
begotten is in "no" way different from the Father that begets.

BERRINTON 5 months 2 weeks ago

They are the same person manifesting in different forms. And why have you turned lying
into your hobby? You lie so much that is has become part and parcel of your character.
When did I claim that the angel was God? Besides, how does Acts 7:30 relate to your silly
and unrealistic argument? The verse is self explanatory to all those who have eyes to see.

BERRINTON 5 months 2 weeks ago

liar brorando=Your claim that the angel is
God himself is contradictory to Jesus never being an angel then isn't it?
Me=Christ is the Angel of God's presence in your illusory world where you were begotten
from a turtle but in the real world, Christ is God manifest in the flesh.

BERRINTON 5 months 2 weeks ago

Me=God is not an angel so how can Jesus be an angel?

BroRando 5 months 1 week ago

"Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God."(1 Corinthians 1:24 KJV) "And the Word
became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten
from the Father), full of grace and truth." (John 1:14 KJV)

The angel of God's presence is no other than Jesus Christ himself. "And after these
things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was
lightened with his glory." (Rev 18:1)

BroRando 5 months 1 week ago

"And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, All power is given to me in heaven and in
earth." (Matthew 28:18 KJV)

Claiming God was GIVEN all power in heaven and in earth is what Apostate Religion
teaches, not the Bible. "The Son has become greater than the angels since he has been
given a name that is superior to theirs." (Hebrews 1:4 God's Word)

BERRINTON 5 months 1 week ago

@BroRando= "Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
If Christ is not eternal i.e is a created being, then how can He be the the power and
wisdom of God? If created Christ is the eternal God's power and wisdom, (and He is a
created being ) then it means that God was once unwise and powerless. Think before you
write silly.


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Jerome


Points: 73 | Coach

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5 months 2 weeks ago

No. The angel is the messenger that Christ created to go before him. The hebrew word is pny-w, which in the context world mean "before him"; thus written, "and the angel in front of him saved them."
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BroRando 5 months 2 weeks ago

"Jehovah possessed me in the beginning of his way, Before his works of old." (Proverbs
8:22 ASV) So if God died and went to heaven on the day he was supposed die then who
speaking here on the third day? "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet
ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father,
and your Father; and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17 KJV)


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BroRando


Points: 69 | Coach

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5 months 2 weeks ago

(Isaiah 63:9 KJV) gives us many insights to the identity of this angel. First we read, In all their affliction he was afflicted. Wasn’t Jesus Christ afflicted for our sins? Yes or No.

We also read, the angel of his presence saved them. Aren't’ we saved by Jesus Christ? Yes or No.

Next we read, in his love and in his pity. Didn’t Jesus command us to love one another and didn't Jesus feel pity for us? Yes or No.

And he redeemed them. Isn’t Jesus Christ our Redeemer? Yes or No.

In conclusion the scripture reads, he bore them, and carried them all the days of old. Didn’t Jesus Christ die and bear
our sins and carry them once and for all time for us? Yes or No.

"God made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you executed" (Acts 2:36) YES or NO?
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BERRINTON 5 months 2 weeks ago

The eye only sees what the eyes want to see. Jesus told the Jews ....see ye and perceive
not for the heart of this people is waxed gross and their ears are dull of hearing and
their eyes have they closed lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with
their ears and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal
them.’.
1.The Bible didn't say the angel of his presence saved them from sin. It simply said the
angel of his presence saved them.

BERRINTON 5 months 2 weeks ago

there are so many instances where God sent his angels to deliver people: eg God sent "two"
angels to deliver Lot from the destruction of sodom and gomorrah. But the Bible never said
angels saved people from their sin. Christ is the "exclusive" savior from sin 2. Jesus
hadn't even incarnated at the time Isaiah wrote the verse meaning he hadn't yet (in time
terms) saved them from sin.
3.Vs 10 makes it clear that it was indeed God (not an angel) that the verse was
referring to But they rebelled

BERRINTON 5 months 2 weeks ago

... and vexed his Holy Spirit: The Holy Spirit is God in action. God present and evident
in creation.
So stop swimming in the pool of your own delusions. Jesus is the son of God who became
"manifest" as flesh and blood when he was born of a woman the same way that you are your
father's invisible sperm who became manifest when you were born from your mom. You are
not an angel or an alien. You are a man with aspects of both your mom and dad. In the same
way, Jesus (during his incarnation) had..

BERRINTON 5 months 2 weeks ago

..aspects of his visible mom (i.e his physical manifestation) and his invisible dad (his
innate divine nature)

BERRINTON 5 months 2 weeks ago

If your friend saves you from fire does that make him Jesus the messiah? Of course not. In
the same way, the fact that God sent angels (messengers) to save people from impending
danger does not not make any of them Jesus the Messiah.

BroRando 5 months 2 weeks ago

"That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may
be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." (John 17:21 KJV)


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Golfer


Points: 123 | Mentor

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5 months 2 weeks ago

No, Angels are creations and Jesus was the creator. All things were created by Him and For Him.
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BroRando 5 months 2 weeks ago

The Angel of wisdom and counsel states, "Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am
understanding; I have strength...I love them that love me; and those that seek me early
shall find me...Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness...My
fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver."
(Proverbs 8:14;19 KJV)

BroRando 5 months 2 weeks ago

"I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white
raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear;
and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see." (Rev 3:18 KJV) :-)


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SaintlyMic


Points: 41 | Capitan

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5 months 2 weeks ago

BroRando,

Jesus is no angel.
Jesus is God.

That verse you quoted could mean many things; however, one thing is for certain, that scripture is NOT saying that Jesus is an angel.

Hebrews 1:13 KJV
13  But to which of the angels said he (The Father) at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine (The Son's) enemies thy footstool?

That scripture is talking about Jesus Christ, so it is clear that Jesus is not the same as angels.

If you were BORN AGAIN you would not be trying to lead us to the antichristian idea that Jesus is an angel.

Jesus uses angels to save.
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BroRando 5 months 2 weeks ago

Thank you. The answer is in the following verses as to which angel. "Are they not all
ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of
salvation?" (Hebrews 1:14 KJV)

"Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered to, but to minister, and to
give his life a ransom for many." (Matthew 20:28 KJV)

BroRando 5 months 2 weeks ago

(Hebrews 1:14) is quoted from Psalms. " He makes his angels spirits,
His ministers a consuming fire." (Psalms 104:5) Notice in Revelation, the Apostle John
says, "By inspiration I came to be in the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a strong
voice like that of a trumpet," (Rev 1:10)

That strong voice like that of a trumpet is no other than the Word of God, Jesus
Christ.

BroRando 5 months 2 weeks ago

Since angels are described as consuming fire, notice how he describes Jesus. "Moreover,
his head and his hair were white as white wool, as snow, and his eyes were like a fiery
flame,  and his feet were like fine copper when glowing in a furnace, and his voice was
like the sound of many waters." (Rev 1:14)

Strong Voice, God's trumpet is no other than the Lord himself, "Christ". Read (1
Thessalonians 4:16) for emphasis has the dead are resurrected for the 1,000 year reign.

BERRINTON 5 months 2 weeks ago

For our God is a consuming fire. Heb 12:29

BroRando 5 months 6 days ago

"And the angel of Jehovah appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of
a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not
consumed." (Exodus 3:2) ASV)

BroRando 5 months 6 days ago

The majority of Bible Scholars make the claim that God himself appeared to Moses and
dismiss (Exodus 3;2) and even contradict the scripture stating that, "No one has ever seen
God" at (John 1:18). Christ was exalted above the other angels for the Name he inherited
has God's Name within him. Read (Hebrews 1:4)

Jesus when translated means "Jehovah is Salvation'. (Exodus 23:20-21)


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