Location: United States Points: 69 |
Posted On: 2016-10-09 09:49:26
Is Christ the Angel of God's Presence?
How would you explain this verse? "In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bore them, and carried them all the days of old." (Isaiah 63:9 KJV)
I completly believe that Yeshua, the Messiah of Israel, is the Angel of YHWH. See these verses and decide for yourself:
Shemot (Exo) 23:20-23 ” Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him. But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.”.
Paul said: Paul says in Acts 27:23 “For there stood by me this night the angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve”
If you want to read more about it go to : https://answersintorah.wordpress.com/2016/10/28/yeshua-the-angel-of-elohim-the-messiah-of-israel/
Blessings to all.
Trinitarians reject that the Angel of God's Presence is Jesus Christ. Therefore, their dogma rejects that Jesus Christ was afflicted. They reject salvation being granted by Jesus Christ. They also reject that Jesus Christ redeems believers. So, if Jesus Christ didn't bear our sins and carry them all the days of old, then who died for our sins if not Jesus Christ?
The scriptures plainly tell us that "Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God."(1 Corinthians 1:24 KJV) "And the Angel of Jehovah said to him, How is it that thou askest after my name, seeing it is wonderful?" (Judges 13:14 Darby) Doesn't (Isaiah 9:6) speak about "a child" or "a son" that would be born to us and one of his names is >i>Wonderful? "Jehovah possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old." (Proverbs 8:22 Darby)
Jesus is the only begotten son of God (John 3:16) .It is an indisputable fact that like "always" begets like and it is also obvious that God is not an angel so how can Jesus be an angel? How can a divine God give birth to something that is not God? Besides, the intent of the verse is glaring to all those who have eyes to see.
In all their affliction he was afflicted, = referring to God
the angel of his presence saved them= referring to the angel that God sent
in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bore them, and carried them all the days of old= Referring to God
How is it that God is an angel but not Jesus? All the days of old refers to "Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:" (1 Peter 3:18 KJV) Christ is the Angel of God's presence and is the One who became better of the angle because he inherited a name more excellent then theirs.
Well, is God begotten? If God is eternal, then who was that who was begotten? Jesus Christ call his Father , the only true God in (John 17:3) Your claim that the angel is God himself is contradictory to Jesus never being an angel then isn't it?
Your thought "begets" your actions. All the actions carried out by your body are primarily thoughts before they become actions. You are the one doing the thinking and you are also the one doing the acting and all your manifest actions are the "exact" reflections of your thoughts.
Your thought: Invisible you
Your action: Manifest you
In the same way, the invisible Father begets the manifest son and the son that is begotten is in "no" way different from the Father that begets.
They are the same person manifesting in different forms. And why have you turned lying into your hobby? You lie so much that is has become part and parcel of your character. When did I claim that the angel was God? Besides, how does Acts 7:30 relate to your silly and unrealistic argument? The verse is self explanatory to all those who have eyes to see.
liar brorando=Your claim that the angel is
God himself is contradictory to Jesus never being an angel then isn't it?
Me=Christ is the Angel of God's presence in your illusory world where you were begotten from a turtle but in the real world, Christ is God manifest in the flesh.
"Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God."(1 Corinthians 1:24 KJV) "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth." (John 1:14 KJV)
The angel of God's presence is no other than Jesus Christ himself. "And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory." (Rev 18:1)
"And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, All power is given to me in heaven and in earth." (Matthew 28:18 KJV)
Claiming God was GIVEN all power in heaven and in earth is what Apostate Religion teaches, not the Bible. "The Son has become greater than the angels since he has been given a name that is superior to theirs." (Hebrews 1:4 God's Word)
@BroRando= "Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
If Christ is not eternal i.e is a created being, then how can He be the the power and wisdom of God? If created Christ is the eternal God's power and wisdom, (and He is a created being ) then it means that God was once unwise and powerless. Think before you write silly.
"Jehovah possessed me in the beginning of his way, Before his works of old." (Proverbs 8:22 ASV) So if God died and went to heaven on the day he was supposed die then who speaking here on the third day? "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17 KJV)
The eye only sees what the eyes want to see. Jesus told the Jews ....see ye and perceive not for the heart of this people is waxed gross and their ears are dull of hearing and their eyes have they closed lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.’.
1.The Bible didn't say the angel of his presence saved them from sin. It simply said the angel of his presence saved them.
there are so many instances where God sent his angels to deliver people: eg God sent "two" angels to deliver Lot from the destruction of sodom and gomorrah. But the Bible never said angels saved people from their sin. Christ is the "exclusive" savior from sin 2. Jesus hadn't even incarnated at the time Isaiah wrote the verse meaning he hadn't yet (in time terms) saved them from sin.
3.Vs 10 makes it clear that it was indeed God (not an angel) that the verse was referring to But they rebelled
... and vexed his Holy Spirit: The Holy Spirit is God in action. God present and evident in creation.
So stop swimming in the pool of your own delusions. Jesus is the son of God who became "manifest" as flesh and blood when he was born of a woman the same way that you are your father's invisible sperm who became manifest when you were born from your mom. You are not an angel or an alien. You are a man with aspects of both your mom and dad. In the same way, Jesus (during his incarnation) had..
If your friend saves you from fire does that make him Jesus the messiah? Of course not. In the same way, the fact that God sent angels (messengers) to save people from impending danger does not not make any of them Jesus the Messiah.
The Angel of wisdom and counsel states, "Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength...I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me...Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness...My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver." (Proverbs 8:14;19 KJV)
"I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see." (Rev 3:18 KJV) :-)
(Hebrews 1:14) is quoted from Psalms. " He makes his angels spirits,
His ministers a consuming fire." (Psalms 104:5) Notice in Revelation, the Apostle John says, "By inspiration I came to be in the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a strong voice like that of a trumpet," (Rev 1:10)
That strong voice like that of a trumpet is no other than the Word of God, Jesus Christ.
Since angels are described as consuming fire, notice how he describes Jesus. "Moreover, his head and his hair were white as white wool, as snow, and his eyes were like a fiery flame, and his feet were like fine copper when glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters." (Rev 1:14)
Strong Voice, God's trumpet is no other than the Lord himself, "Christ". Read (1 Thessalonians 4:16) for emphasis has the dead are resurrected for the 1,000 year reign.
The majority of Bible Scholars make the claim that God himself appeared to Moses and dismiss (Exodus 3;2) and even contradict the scripture stating that, "No one has ever seen God" at (John 1:18). Christ was exalted above the other angels for the Name he inherited has God's Name within him. Read (Hebrews 1:4)
Jesus when translated means "Jehovah is Salvation'. (Exodus 23:20-21)