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Question - Topic: Religion Christian
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BroRando
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Posted On: 2016-09-04 16:15:39
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Did Jesus and the evildoer really go heaven that same day?

Many religions teach that Jesus and the evildoer went directly to heaven the same day they were to die. "And Jesus said to him, Truly I say to you, To day shall you be with me in paradise." (Luke 23:43 KJV)

Is this true? What do you think?

Answers & Comments: 67
ronandcarol
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1 year 2 months ago

And Jesus replied, "I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise."
And Jesus replied, "I assure you today, you will be with me in paradise."

There are many references that state that when we die we will 'sleep' until Jesus returns to get us. That said
it is believed that the editors of the Bible might have put the comma in the wrong spot.

ronandcarol
BroRando
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1 year 2 months ago
Nice explanation. "I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise." Having the comma in the wrong place, changes the meaning so much, it would not only deny that Christ died for us, but that he had risen on the third day according to the scriptures.

"Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:" (1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV)
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1 year 2 months ago
Notice the harmony with the good news about Christ, if the comma is placed in the correct position. "I assure you today, you will be with me in paradise." Yes, Jesus made that Promise that very day, otherwise it would be out of harmony. "I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain." (Galatians 2:21 KJV)

"I do not reject the undeserved kindness of God, for if righteousness is through law, Christ actually died for nothing." (NWT)
ronandcarol
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1 year 2 months ago
I believe that Jesus died for our sins and was resurrected on the third day to defeat death for all who believe and have faith in Him. I do not believe that the wrong-doer on the cross that Jesus forgave, went directly to heaven. It is written in 1 Thessalonians 4:16, For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, the Christians who have died will rise from their graves.
ronandcarol
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1 year 2 months ago
The Christians that are in the grave will be raised to meet Christ in the air and fly off to eternity. They are in the grave until He returns for them, 1 Thess. 4:16.

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Jerome
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1 year 3 months ago

Iesous is The Truth, and he speaks the truth. "to be absent from the body, is to be present with the Lord". II Cor.5:8.
YosefMarques
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1 year 3 months ago

Brorando, I think that this single verse, and probably many others will share some truth to the answers you are looking for:

Hebrews 9:27 "And as IT IS APPOINTED UNTO MEN ONCE TO DIE, but after this the judgment"

As it is stated in this verse people die, and many, many years later he or she will wake up into the Judgement of the Last Days (Rev 20).
Blessings for you.
BroRando
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1 year 3 months ago
A+!!! During Jesus earthly ministry, he gave witness to the Kingdom of the Heavens. But as he was dying, an evildoer asked Jesus to remember him. Jesus did not mention heaven, but a paradise. Could the Garden of Eden be restored? According to the prophet Isaiah, he preached, “The wolf and the lamb themselves will feed as one, and the lion will eat straw just like the bull;” (Isaiah 65:25)
BroRando
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1 year 3 months ago
Hosea 6:2 gives evidence of Jehovah's timetable. "He will revive us after two days. On the third day he will raise us up, And we will live before him. We will know, we will earnestly seek to know Jehovah.”
BroRando
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1 year 3 months ago
In Brother Rando’s research of the Bible, he found scripture does interpret other scripture. The answer to how long a day was, according to God’s Will was found in Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8. This is vital to gaining understanding in how we are to measure time in God’s view. Spiritually and not fleshy or physical. A day in heavens time is a thousand years to us. It’s by this method we can measure time and where we are in the stream of time of the end.
YosefMarques
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1 year 3 months ago
BroRando: As you said a day could be a thousand years in some cases. But always, we die, then judgement day and then we will be in a new heaven..
Blessings

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DEN14
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1 year 3 months ago

It is my understanding that when we die we sleep, (scripture says "they slept with their fathers"). It is like this when we go to sleep at night we wake up in the morning and the whole night has passed off and a new day has begun. When we die we sleep but years may passed away maybe thousands of years but when we wake up it just seems like the next day. And time in nothing to God. So the thief on the cross I think sleep and will wake up when Heaven comes for everyone.
BroRando
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1 year 3 months ago
"Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out," (Matthew 5:28-29)

"hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works." (Rev 20:13)
BroRando
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1 year 3 months ago
Jesus said to her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believes in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: (John 11:25)
BroRando
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1 year 3 months ago
A few Videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkWZgYegz0s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9CpBzXtH8I
MJThompson
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1 year 3 months ago
DEN14 – You share an interesting perspective & the scriptures you quote indeed are noteworthy. Having never yet physically died & departed, none of us really know (in terms of personal experience). Many teach according to their interpretation of certain scriptures, which is fine most of the time, but an area of misinterpretation has been that associated with the after-life. I have researched the matter & written many articles related to the terms ‘paradise’, ‘heaven’, & ‘hell’,
MJThompson
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1 year 3 months ago
all available on my blog @ mjthompsons.wordpress.com. OT concepts of ‘Abraham’s Bosom’ & ‘paradise’ are both TEMPORARY places for the righteous dead. Heaven, on the other hand, is something God is still preparing for their ETERNAL abode after the FINAL JUDGMENT. IT is included in the ‘new heavens & new earth’ spoken of throughout scripture. It must be understood that there were many ideas ideas (Jews NOT all believing the SAME)
MJThompson
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1 year 3 months ago
about this matter. Christian doctrine is further complicated by mingling traditions, folklore, & mythologies where it has erred. Deeper research will provide valuable insights into these questions. Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal the TRUTH – HE Alone can. Peace!

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BERRINTON
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1 year 3 months ago

1st of all, we are "all" evildoers so it is wrong to single out the robber as an evildoer. We must not exclude ourselves from the crucifixion account because we were all there (symbolically) with Jesus at the cross. As a result of our sin, we are all condemned to die and the 2 thieves symbolize the 2 types of people on earth. One type (the church) repents and looks to Jesus. One type don't repent. They reject Jesus and His sacrifice on the cross. Then there is Jesus in the middle. The person who the Father condemned to die for our sin.
Now to your question. The verse is self explanatory " "And "Jesus" said to him, Truly I say to you, To day shall you be with me in paradise." (Luke 23:43 KJV) Jesus said today you shall be with me in paradise. So the question becomes. Does Jesus lie? The simple answer is no. So yes the condemned criminal was with Christ in Paradise on that very"day"
delphradio
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1 year 3 months ago
Please see comments below regarding (a) punctuation and (b) the fact that Jesus was in the grave for 3 days.
God bless.
BERRINTON
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1 year 3 months ago
@delphradio So you mean Jesus was lying when He claimed today you will be with me in paradise? The Bible is a double edged sword. One part (the literal) kills and one part (the spiritual) imparts life and understanding. I expected you to ask how it was possible for Jesus to be in paradise on the same day with the criminal. Besides, it is always important approach scripture holistically rather than taking a here a little there a little approach..
BERRINTON
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1 year 3 months ago
Your answer Ancient Greek did not have punctuation, so it would be equally valid to write "Truly I say to you today; you WILL be with with me in paradise". shows a tendency to weed out scripture that you do not understand. You may not realize it but the tendency to weed out scripture originated from Eve. God said You will "surely" die. Eve said when asked by the serpent "lest" ye die. Dont excuse scripture. Dont add or subtract from it. Dont 'etymologise' it. Leave it as it is.
BroRando
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1 year 3 months ago
If Jesus went to heaven on the same day, then why did GOD wait three days to resurrect him? lol.... Was Mary Magdalene in Heaven or on Earth in from of his tomb speaking to Jesus? If Jesus went to heaven the same day then while is Jesus stating this three days later?

Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”
BroRando
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1 year 3 months ago
You just told me God is everywhere but Jesus stated he did not ascend there yet.

“Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”
BERRINTON
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1 year 3 months ago
@BroRando Have you ever seen the verse the letter kills but the spirit gives life. You take the bible literally word for word and that is why you remain in darkness and blindness. When Jesus tells us take up your cross and follow me do you think he means take a piece of wood and roam about town? Stop being silly and recalcitrant. Jesus statement to the criminal is God's verdict to those who repent (like the repentant thief). " Today " (the eternal today) you will be with me in paradise.
BERRINTON
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1 year 3 months ago
You quote Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father.
But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and
to my God and your God.’”

Of course I know you are blind and have chosen to remain blind. You forgot that God "incarnated" He "became" flesh and blood for our sakes and for that reason, he needed to ascend to where he once was.
BERRINTON
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1 year 3 months ago
In your own illusory world, when Jesus tells us unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life in you, he means we have to look for his body, cut it into bits , eat it and drain his blood for drinking which is why you have eaten from Jesus actual body and drank of his physical blood even though he lived two thousand years ago. The literal kills silly. The spirit gives life.
delphradio
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1 year 3 months ago
The Bible is fairly clear on when things are a figure of speech and when things are literal. I see not basis for believing in an "eternal today". Perhaps it is theology rather than Scripture.
One thing is certain, adopting mocking tones and denigrating the beliefs of others can bring the Word of God into disrepute, Mr Berrington. Please offer facts, not insults.
BERRINTON
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1 year 3 months ago
@delphradio Lol All those who hate the truth refer to it as an insult/ George Orwell once said "“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it." I speak truth and truth is bitter. Jesus called the Pharisees blind guides, fools and asked them how they could escape the damnation of hell. The Bible says He that hates his son spares his rod. Anyone who withholds the bitter truth unknowingly or knowingly hates those that they withhold it from
BERRINTON
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1 year 3 months ago
Which is why scripture tells us that a flattering mouth works ruin and He that rebuketh a man afterwards shall find more favour than he that flattereth with the tongue Prov 28:23.
You ask for proof so Im gonna throw your question back to you. Give me proof that the Bible was tampered with (i.e is not in its original form) when it claimed that Christ told the criminal today you shall be with me in paradise.
BERRINTON
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1 year 3 months ago
The proof that what Ive written is true is contained in what Ive written. Its true. Search it out and try it. Your request for proof reflects the unbelieving attitude of the Jews who asked Jesus for a sign from heavenJesus told the Jews A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas.
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1 year 3 months ago
Finally, You write "I see not basis for believing in an "eternal today" Scripture is not about what you see. It is about what is irrespective of what you see. Have you read Heb 3:15 "As has just been said: “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion.” Cant you see that God's today is unending.(present continuous) He was talking to the Israelites in the wilderness. He was talking to the Hebrews and he is talking to us today and our children tomorrow.
BERRINTON
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1 year 3 months ago
Repent and accept Jesus = Message not restricted to any time zone. It is a message to the Jews, the greeks, the south africans, the americans and the british of all ages throughout all the days in this earthly existence.
delphradio
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1 year 3 months ago
You seem to be quite arrogant, assuming that if Jesus is justified in calling some hypocrites, you can insult people.
I have much to repent about, but what do you say I should repent of? Daring to have a different understanding of Scripture? Daring to use the Bible rather than theology? Do tell.
I accepted Jesus as my Saviour over 40 years ago, for your information.
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1 year 3 months ago
@delphradio Your insistence on "I" shows how much of an ego person you are "I have much to repent about, " I should repent of?" "I accepted Jesus".. Who cares about how many years you accepted Jesus? Some stay in one class for 10 years and some complete it within a few months. You may (perceive yourself) to have been in Christ for a a million years but its not how many years that you have professed Christ that matters but what Christ has done in your life.
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1 year 3 months ago
As for your claim "You seem to be quite arrogant," I leave that to your conscience. I don't care about your perception of me. The Jews called Jesus a devil and a mad person (John 7;20, John 10:20) so it aint gonna make the headlines that you claim that I seem to be arrogant. I tell the truth. I dont insult. Its a great injustice and lie to call a fool a wise person. The truth is bitter. Besides, I havent used any word that many may consider insulting on "you" (during this debate)
BERRINTON
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1 year 3 months ago
because I didn't feel you warranted any so I wonder why you are acting like the sympathizer that cries more than the bereaved. Rather than tell me about how many years you have been in Christ, why don't you address my answers to your previous comments? Why are you suddenly turning a blind eye to my points?
delphradio
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1 year 3 months ago
"The ancient Greeks did not have any equivalent to our modern device of punctuation. Sentence punctuation was invented several centuries after the time of Christ. The oldest copies of both the Greek New Testament and the Hebrew Old Testament are written with no punctuation."
http://greek-language.com/grklinguist/?p=657
Ergo, punctuation has been added by translators, in some cases to support their beliefs rather than fit the facts..
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1 year 3 months ago
@delphradio Wow so that's your proof? Its nice to know that you lived during the time of the ancient greeks. That's why you know. Its just a theory @delpradio. You are only telling me what you were taught. i.e what you have been indoctrinated with. Lets assume that your theory is true How do you know that the translators of the Bible followed the error of non punctuation? Were you there with them? Spiritual mysteries are provable facts (provable by those who have eyes to see) not theories.
BERRINTON
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1 year 3 months ago
Not guess work and unprovable assumptions.
delphradio
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1 year 3 months ago
This is pointless. Count me out. Pearls before swine and all that.
BERRINTON
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1 year 3 months ago
Lol or in other words, " Ive got no point so I better run away before i make a fool of myself. Nice strategy. However, I wasn't fooled
DEN14
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1 year 3 months ago
All have sinned and come short of the Glory of God. We will all sleep when we die until Jesus awakes us! (Well said BERRINTON.)
MJThompson
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1 year 3 months ago
PEOPLE! Please, avoid the further sowing of such seeds of discord. Those among you who indeed have a right relationship with GOD in Christ, must cease to allow the devil o celebrate such divisions among you. There are indeed some more spiritually mature who must be respected as qualified ‘elders’. But the proof of such elder-ship is evidenced by their fruit. The use of labels that are received as insults, even our Lord confined to false teachers & hypocrite, not brothers in faith.
MJThompson
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1 year 3 months ago
. It should be clear (to those who truly KNOW God) who has ‘rightly divided’ TRUTH. To be gracious & tolerant of those who remain confused & uneducated is much more beneficial than childish eruptions caused by hurt feelings. If you are offended, check the reason – it may be a conviction from the Holy Spirit. If it was unwarranted – “whoever will not receive you nor hear you, when you depart from there,
MJThompson
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1 year 3 months ago
shake off the dust under your feet as a testimony against them” – Mk. 6:11. One it is established that a dispute cannot be settled, MOVE on, resolving never to entertain “throwing your pearls” to THAT swine ever again. I grieve over this because you both make VALID points but have focused on the insults rather than the point. Peace!
BERRINTON
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1 year 3 months ago
I am for peace: but "when I speak", they are for war. Psalm 120:7
So there was a division among the people over him. John 7:43
@MJThompson Thanks for your elderly and wise advise. Like you rightly observed, the unity of the faith is important but it is also important to note that the truth must "never" be sacrificed on the altar of fellowship and unity. Jesus tells us that he came not to bring peace but division (Luke 12:51). The truth is always bound to cause divisions.
BERRINTON
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1 year 3 months ago
And it is these divisions that reveal our true intent and stance. It was conflict and chaos that exposed Moses as the genuine prophet. So avoiding conflict and sweeping issues under the rug are "always" detrimental to truth. Besides, your claim "even our Lord confined to false teachers & hypocrite, not brothers in faith" is not accurate because the Lord "Himself" called His disciples fools (Luke 24:25) Paul called the Galatians fools (Gal 3:1) .
BERRINTON
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1 year 3 months ago
The Galatians were not pagans. They were Christians. (fellow brethren in the faith)
The truth always provokes violent reactions in those that resist it because it always seeks to crumble all the untruth that they cling to.
1.We are to promote "unity" of the "faith" not "lies" in the faith.
2.We are to promote peace. It was never my intent to promote war. Everyone with eyes to see can bear witness to the fact that my "original" answer to the question was very direct.....
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1 year 3 months ago
...I addressed the question and not the person who asked the question. I only addressed the person who asked the question's recalcitrance when he demonstrated his "usual" recalictrance (which you have admitted to yourself)
3. Truth is always firm and it is always for the humble. Jesus told His disciples Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember? A modern man would be offended by that statement and may have sought to sue Jesus to court but the disciples...
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1 year 3 months ago
..humbly accepted Jesus verdict because they realized it was true.
4.True Love chastens. True love rebukes. True love is firm and true love says it as it is not caring whose ox is gored. which is why scripture tells us that he that hates his son spares his rod but he that loves him chastens him early. God told Jeremiah speak it as it is or else i will confound you before them. True love is scared of saying it as it is.
BERRINTON
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1 year 3 months ago
TWIC: I DO "NOT" EXALT MYSELF TO BE AN ELDER. I AM JUST "LITTLE" ME. So no one should take me to be more than the "little me" that I am and you are all entitled not to believe or read anything that little me writes.
BERRINTON
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1 year 3 months ago
correction True love is "not" scared of saying it as it is.
BERRINTON
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1 year 3 months ago
A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition "reject";Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself. Tit 3:10
If there come any unto you, and bring not "this" doctrine, receive him "not" into your house, neither bid him God speed:For he that biddeth him God speed is "partaker of his evil deeds." 2 John 1:10-11
BroRando
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1 year 3 months ago
Man's false' teaching: "So yes the condemned criminal was with Christ in Paradise on that very"day"

The Bibles' teaching: "he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:" (1 Corinthians 15:4)
BroRando
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1 year 3 months ago
"For if you publicly declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved." (Romans 10:9)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO8UIVTyGXI&index=2&list=PL862879BCC1506D29

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWwgTeNX6ac&index=3&list=PL862879BCC1506D29

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsRmqCwrfGo&list=PL862879BCC1506D29&index=4
BERRINTON
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1 year 3 months ago
@BroRando's Willing blindness shows that his eyes are mere decorations, they are not for seeing :"Truly I say to you, "To day" shall you be with me in paradise." (Luke 23:43 KJV)

In @brorando's illusory world where dogs give birth to chickens, Jesus is a liar but in the real world, where dogs give birth to dogs, Jesus can "never" lie.
BroRando
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1 year 3 months ago
"From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day." (Mat 16:21)

"he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:" (1 Corinthians 15:4)

Jesus ascended to heaven 43 days after his DEATH or40 days after his resurrection. (Acts 1:3)

Read delphradio below "Jesus was dead for 3 days".
BERRINTON
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1 year 3 months ago
Lol , keep confirming to the world that your eyes are mere decorations. Did you read my explanation to @delphradio?

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delphradio
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1 year 3 months ago

Scripture tells us that Jesus was dead for 3 days, then rose to life again and was on earth for a further 40 days before ascending to heaven to be at God's right hand, so clearly (leaving aside the fact that Paradise is not the same as heaven), Jesus could not have been with the criminal in any place of reward that same day.
Ancient Greek did not have punctuation, so it would be equally valid to write "Truly I say to you today; you WILL be with with me in paradise".
Otherwise it basically make Jesus a liar and we know that can't be right!!
Golfer
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1 year 3 months ago
We also were raISED UP WITH JESUS WHEN HE dIED AND AROSE, BY FAITH NOT OUR FAITH BUT GODS.
BroRando
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1 year 3 months ago
In this case the KJV falls short. As you stated, "Ancient Greek did not have punctuation, so it would be equally valid to write "Truly I say to you today; you WILL be with with me in paradise".

And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.” (Luke 23:43 NWT) To teach the man-made rendition that Jesus went to heaven on the day he WAS to die, is to not only deny his death but also DENY his resurrection.
BroRando
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1 year 3 months ago
"For among the first things I handed on to you was what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures;  and that he was buried, yes, that he was raised up on the third day according to the Scriptures;" (1 Corinthians 15:3-4)
BroRando
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1 year 3 months ago
On a side point, who died for our sins according to the scriptures? God or Christ? Who was raised on the third day God or Christ? The truth is so so simple!

"For if you publicly declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved.  For with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration for salvation." (Romans 10:9-10)
delphradio
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1 year 3 months ago
We are broadly in agreement on the one, Brother Rando, although I am not a great fan of the NWT. :o)
BroRando
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1 year 3 months ago
Few people know that JW's were one the largest distributors of the KJV. Not only did we receive permits and licenses to print these Bibles but printed upwards toward 40 million of them! Which Bible is the Best translation? The One you HAVE!

Download the JW Library App for free and choose a translation or several including the KJV or Koine Greek for comparison.

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Golfer
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1 year 3 months ago

One robber went directly to paradise, Jesus went into hell (so we don't have to for our sins) and took away the keys to hell from Satan. So the law of sin and death no longer belongs to Satan but Jesus. Jesus was raised up from hell on the 3rd day and according to the Bible had not yet gone to the Father because He told them not to touch Him because He had not gone to the Father yet.



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